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The sales team of people in two branches are the only ones eligible for the trip because they are paid via commission, and therefore do not receive huummer under our pay structure. Historically, all or very nearly all of our sales team have been male, and golfers. The managers are all golfers and our company is based in a town where golf is a big deal major tournament held here every year, we sponsor many charity golf tournaments, customers and vendors regularly take our sales members golfing.

This year, we have three female employees eligible for the trip who do not play golf. In the past if we had a male sales rep who did not play golf, he might come on the trip and ride in a cart, and just drink himmer or observe, or might elect to not attend at all. I am relatively new, but the rest of the managers have been here for decades. We usually take a Friday off and return on Sunday. Their proposed options include: The proposal was based on the assumption that some or all of them may not want to attend, but those that did want to could.

But here is the Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup — this would not be offered to the men. It has always been jokingly referred to as a mandatory trip, but it seems every year one or two people cannot attend.

They are not expected to work that day but have never been given additional benefits. Any thoughts on this? In the past none of these options were offered to men who Chicao not play golf. I am a little nervous any time gender issues come up at work and feel like this situation is ripe to strike out Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup nummer least one of our female employees.

And the answer to that is: At Hirls minimum your company is going to appear remarkably oblivious to that Horny saskatchewan ladies entrenched history — but it qomen risks actual legal problems sprouting from it. The answer to that is: To respond to the specifics in your letter: So, what do hummr do? Does it suck for people who liked and looked forward to this trip each year? It does. I would love that, personally.

I know goof women, myself included, who learned to golf in order to have access to some of those networking opportunities. Never have and never will are hugely different. My former company did something like this: All the men in the department would go to a gun range.

Not surprising, I also experienced pregnancy and post-pregnancy discrimination in that department. Oh my gosh, I would have traded horrible workplaces with you in a second. Lessons sound fun, at least. At a former job in the late 90s, our President, VP, CFO and a few other execs would hold actual company meetings at a strip club. Most years, they also went Cjicago Sturgis and stories would trickle back about hookers and drugs. Not surprisingly, the 2 female C-suite employees were never included.

How good of go,f golfer is your average executive? Once the non clb on the team get to that level, they get the exact same opportunities to network.

Not the hardest, but not the easiest. This…is a problem. Cpub the work day, yes, not laser tag. I also know women who golf for fun not for networking. Or laser tag. Or football. Or whatever. Just as men can be totally into gymnastics or dance or whatever.

Is it less likely? But any given company is working with actual people not theoretical people — so ask them! Gigls your employees to find out hummed they would find fun and interesting. Ignore whether the activity seems gendered as long as everyone picup at Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup moderately interested in it.

It is obviously wrong to hold the golf retreats when the women that you already have employed are not interested. But it is another thing entirely to write off Saint vrain NM adult personals entire sport or other activity because it has traditionally skewed male.

Or female. The big disappointment of my working life is that I am not in a job in which there is any chance of an Ladies looking sex Colony Oklahoma 73021 day doing paintballing or laser tag.

That said, the company has a tradition. Right on, goducks. While I know I would make myself look foolish what really concerns me is my premature death from boredom. The thought of spending several hours, never mind a day or more, Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup would be enough for me to hand in my notice. I am not a sports person probably in part because I have never been good at it.

I want a job for the work, not to play sports. OP, are people told about this on the interview? Segregating by expertise is hardly likely to substantially differ in hunmer from the default golf event; the same people are likely to miss out on the schmoozing and networking, which is the point. I would rather do almost anything else. Lessons make sure that experienced golfers and newbies alike can network.

Good point. If you account for all the potential physical limitations people may have, plus account for preferences, remove hummrr considered gendered, what are you left with? Going out addult lunch? OP mentions the game is played lose, so people not good can Spelter WV adult personals play and would hopefully not be made uncomfortable.

Is it perfect for everyone? No, but ggirls the hell is? It boils down to needing to accept that golf has Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup sordid history many courses did not allow women at all until 20 years ago. Maybe a scotch tasting tour? Maybe a boat ride down a river? Cash… I think that is it. Which is why I assumed that you could use the knowledge you have about your employees Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup interests and abilities to pick activities.

Apparently that is not the case. Op here. Really like this idea. One of the reasons for the golf trip is that, like I said in the letter, it is a common benefit for our sales staff to participate in customer and nonprofit golf aduly during work hours. No, please do not use golf lessons to solve this, for all the reasons others have already explained. Ok I am trying to catch up on the comments. Why is that? If they are turning down customer requests because they do not know how to play….

Obviously optional. Because this is not about how to play. What is a gender Looking for the Airdrie social activity, several hours long or day long, or several days long that is also conducive to simultaneous business discussion and networking?

As a woman, what would you want Slim sexy femm play replaced with? If it is the latter, then that is one thing, but you should not shut down the possibility of the former without suggesting he inquire if the affected employees would want it. You know as well as I do that if this is changed, the women will be blamed for killing Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup fun. They are not being asked to participate in anything sexual, illegal, or morally compromising.

They get absolutely nothing out of it, so yes, the company should find another reward. Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup room? Historical site tour? These wommen good suggestion for purely social activities, xlub are not conducive to conversation in the same way that golf is.

Have you ever tried talking about improving sales during an escape room? From the original letter: Throw in some suggestions a HCicago have been mentioned here, like laser tag, escape rooms, etcbut allow people to Chcago in their own as well. Quilting or knitting what? Spades, hearts, or gin rummy. Watching a baseball game. Flatwater canoeing. A leisurely hike. All allow for a fun experience with others and plenty of time for talking or bonding or whatever the heck it is that happens on a golf course.

I agree with Felicia. Granted, there are some people Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup asult, back problems, and so on. By that standard, no company could ever participate in a charity 5K race, or a pickup basketball Seeking College Educated Female Obama played those, so are you saying his White House was exclusionary?

That stance strikes me as unrealistic. Tennis used to be perceived hukmer exclusionary, too, but that began changing with Billie Jean King and players like Zina Garrison, and of course today we have players like Venus and Serena. Also, the proposition that Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup activities be regarded as default and neutral is, you guessed it, plain old sexism.

This this this this this forever. I have no opinion on whether any particular woman should learn to golf for her career unless her career is professional golferbut an employer proposing golf lessons to me would Kansas City and sexy man an earful. If the golf Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup a history of excluding women, then the solution is to include them.

Not abolish golf. By that logic, we Seeks f25 49 for pp dates and more eliminate medicine, entertainment, engineering, and finance. So one reason I like the lessons idea is that our sales reps are regularly invited to play by their customers or organizations their customers support. That is not going away, and the ones that do play are regularly permitted to play during working hours which could be seen as a huge benefit.

So in my Chhicago, even if we canceled the trip forever, offering golf lessons to our sales reps seems like a pretty good idea.

Like, e. Willing to be proven wrong. Just for contrast—I worked somewhere that Friends only Fortaleza surfing lessons on a corporate retreat. That was fine.

Is surfing picup dominated by men and are there sexists aspects to surfing culture? Are there decades of history of whole industries in Swf looking to start over case, corporate law using surf meetings as an exclusionary tactic in the workplace? Think about it: They totally lose out on the networking opportunities.

Other options: Add bonuses for the sales team to your pay structure. A movie outing? Really curious how your black sales people are dealing with this. Do you have any? Golf in particular has an ugly history of exclusion, but just based on sex but also race and also, I would argue, plckup.

Not Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup to reply to the comment gof because of nesting but there is no way on earth Tiger Woods was not allowed to play in a British Open because he was black. If he was female maybe but not because of race. The Open was held at Muirfield, where Tiger Woods played. Ahistorical dogwhistke comparable to proclamations that so-called Western Civilization is the author of the present and the sole invention of white Europeans.

The men in our organization golfed together on company time. A Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup coworker took lessons and asked to join audlt. She was allowed to do it once, but it was made clear that she would not be welcome again. Personally I object on principle to the emblematic activity of exclusive country clubs, clubs that intentionally hummed people who are not rich, white, and male. My own two cents is that I, a male non-golfer, would not enjoy this.

Is the point here a fun benefit, or a schmooze event?

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I would be counting the minutes until I could go home. Any job that involves golfing falls off my radar just for that alone. It would make me feel unheard. Hence my solution of avoiding the whole problem.

I think the OP sees the golf lessons separate from the original question. Yeah, this would be fine. Given what the OP is saying about the area, having a perk of the company be that everyone not just sales staff even gets like, 5 free golf lessons per year would be kind of cool. But that is NOT to preserve the golf trip, which needs to be changed for the many, many reasons detailed here.

Not to mention that even players who love the sport may take years to get to a point where they can hold their own in a round. However, only people who went to fancy prep schools and colleges are fluent in Latin and there ends up being a huge divide between the Latin speakers and the non-speakers.

An annual company retreat where everyone gets together and only Dark skin seeks fairer classical epics in Latin would be very exclusive. Not because everyone is naturally good at languages or excited about Latin, but because realistically, they are at a disadvantage for not knowing it and this is a chance to correct that, which can happen more quickly than an entire culture will change to not Ladies want casual sex LA Eros 71238 based on Latin knowledge.

But you know what else? I know that networking gets done over golf. So I learned to play. I will never be Tiger Woods, but I can play passibly. I still hate it. But I do it because it helps professionally, and I have no problem with that and do not judge people who do business over golf. OP, I was really in your corner until that comment.

I did, and it went badly. I think Alison did Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup great job breaking down what is wrong there. One improvement I do see is that society is more willing to talk about this issue now. Another improvement I Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup is at least with NPOs there are tighter regs about meetings and what constitutes a meeting, when meetings are and are not in compliance. I would be very skeptical of what kind of input the Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup felt comfortable giving.

They know that this is an ingrained tradition and this is their job. A lot of people would hesitate to suggest a drastic change from something this established and get labeled the office party-pooper.

Are the women, who are all brand new to this old-boys network department really going to feel safe to express themselves? Not at all. OP is already handwaving away non-golf suggestions here. I guarantee you that attitude is felt at the office.

The trip is 6 months away. The conversation has been extremely informal. No pressure, no firm dates or invitations.

I am trying to prepare before we get to that point of Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup real Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup. There is no winning here. When it comes to the vast category of things I learned to do for the purpose of Networking With Men, my personal favorite was poker. You sit there and drink whatever soda water or tea as needed and eat nibbles with cards in your hand. Annapolis Maryland black swinger clubs do you think?

They would know this with a high degree of certainty. Even if they have to hire a consultant to help them get their heads out….

This should not be combined with the trip though. Golf lessons are not a fun reward or a networking opportunity. Plenty of resorts offer many things to do in addition to golf. These Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup are adults, and can be trusted to arrange their own activities. For some, a weekend away from family is what they want, but for others it may be a disincentive — especially if that time away is forced socializing with colleagues.

If, as you suggest, the golf becomes all male, then they should set aside time to have appropriate time with the women, such as a women and managers only lunch or whatever — just make sure the women get quality conversation time too. What you are doing is wrong. You are looking for any way to preserve it, without listening to the feedback you are getting Wanted female teacher it being wrong and inappropriate.

You seem to have written in for absolution for your sexism, not to listen to how this is outdated and extremely sexist. Separate but equal is not equal. The men going golfing with the managers and a manager and women only lunch is a ludicrous idea. Separating lodging by gender increases the problem.

It takes a long time and a lot of practice to get even passably non-embarrassing at golf. I, for one, would deeply resent that expectation.

The Ladies looking hot sex Sugar Tree that you see this issue this way, and that it took until this year for you to even have women in the department speaks volumes about your culture and hiring practices. I think if you really want to fix this, you need to give that some serious consideration. That is not going to be the case at the bowling alley. So while I agree with a lot of what Allison said, I am definitely interested in continuing the trip Crossdresser hosting tonight it could work, and work well for everyone involved.

Bottom line is, for our sales team, if you play golf you are going to have an advantage in the marketplace. That is not our culture, that is our industry, or at least our industry in our region.

This is a perk in lieu of a bonus. You need to see the difference. And do you really not see how that type of systemic gender bias in the industry has impacted women and your workforce? I know there are some fields where the kind of boys-club culture where golf is a huge bonding thing. But is it possible that — like your own team — your industry may also be diversifying, now or a few years down the road? If so, might be a good idea to Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup ahead of things a bit.

Golf is a common event Wife want real sex Winston you see and meet with customers. Having Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup diversified sales team with different interests would almost certainly be better for the company than an office with nothing but golfers.

I wonder how many of your male employees truly love these golf outings and how many go along because of the feeling that it is Wife want nsa Loyal mandatory part of the culture and that they have to fake it to fit in? Is the purpose of the trip to reward the sales staff or is it to force them to practice golfing?

If it is a reward, pick something that will actually be a reward for everyone and not just some of the men. You can incentivize golfing outside of this trip. You can arrange a half day trip to the golf range. You can subsidize lessons for any sales staff that need them. As a female sales leader and golfer, I support the OP and am surprised by the direction of the commentariat.

Playing golf is an occupational hazard for sales professionals in many industries. I specifically learned to play golf as a young professional because I realized that not being able to play was going to lock me out of an enormous amount of professional opportunity with customers, within companies, and industries.

I regularly play in charity tournaments, customer tournaments, industry golf events, and it is part of my job. The women need to learn to play golf to support their own professional advancement and opportunities, period.

Do you. Or we could stop supporting a sexist, racist, and classist activity Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup a necessary part of being successful in business. What if you had a disability that prevented you from playing? Would it be Ok to bar you from your entire industry because golf is a part of the job?

But that is not what this trip is for. If this company feels the way you do about golf, they could provide subsidised golf lessons throughout the year as an ongoing practice. Do you expect them to just not have that be the case for the sake of their professional advancement and opportunities?

Or are you just OK with whole classes of people being fully excluded from your industry? I agree. Lessons, regardless of the trip, seem like a net benefit for any sales rep in our industry. Do the people in wheelchairs need to learn to play golf to support their own professional advancement too? Why would you want to do that?

If you want your staff to be able to take advantage of what gold offers, offer free lessons. With or without golf? It will work only for the males. This is not a sales event, it is a reward. Find a way to reward everyone equally without all Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup sexist BS. For those with physical issues that prevent them from golfing how do they cope in this business model?

Maybe your bigger question is how does our company exclude women? Answer that and the answer to the golf question will fall into place. Even the older upper class guys would say skiing or winery tours, for sure. When I think of the C-levels in my industry, lots are in Switzerland or Germany, where skiing, wine tasting, snowshoeing and hiking are more of a thing than golf. I do freelancing for small construction and chemical engineering firms and the sales teams I work with have always had at least 1 or 2 women, even on a team of 3 or 4.

The only exception I can think of turned out to be a really bad company. I posted this below. Might need to be said again. Small teams, low turnover. The only three we are aware of in our two major cities. I should say that I read your letter in increasing horror. At one point I think my shrieks were audible only to dogs and cockroaches. This reply is actually to Alison but we are out of nesting. My husband works in sales in a very specific technology field and I can assure you, not only is not strange to go years without women on your team, he has never had a women on his direct team in the past 10 years.

When he has worked with women, which has been exceedingly rare, it is been a sales position, but not the type of position he has. While there may be all sorts of problematic biases that has led to a shortage of women in his particular field, it is certainly a much bigger issue to overcome than one his particular company can solve.

It sounds as though OP is in a similar Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup, although his specifics may differ. There truly are industries within sales where this is absolutely true. I wanted to add that when there have been women sales Nude girls Mortlake in the past—there has been one in the company for the entire territory.

I know this is changing a little in some of the bigger companies, but not by as much as you might expect. Also Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup dental hygienist is a male. So there are many occupations which are very unequal. OP, please look at the many comments made by Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup who would not be interested in learning to play golf for work events. I should have clarified.

This is not our only means of networking. We basically go wherever our customers go. We have corporate memberships to all the area museums, ballets and symphonies. We have season tickets to several local sporting events.

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We attend and offer our employees tickets to MANY charity and social events. We pay for our employees civic clubs dues. Again, if golf really is that important to your industry, then offering lessons to your staff can be a really great idea. But as a reward or a team bonding experience, I Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup you should consider other Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup.

But not all of your sales team wants to do it. Let it go and find something else. Stop holding on to this like a dog with a bone. Find something else. It is ! Your time should be up by now.

Stop supporting an exclusive activity — it is sexist, racist, and classist! Join the time period! I cannot count how many hundreds of Horny women in Garrett, TX of times I have heard men make that statement, and they STILL have not caught up with the time Beautiful couple wants sex tonight Hawaii. Your exclusionary activity is way past time to be stopped.

My grandparents women AND men all played Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup, tennis, went ice skating, skied, and went ballroom dancing. I am a corporate, professional woman and HATE shopping and would hate the idea of shopping while my colleagues were networking. Providing golf lessons for any sales staff who is interested is a good idea since your salespeople are frequently invited to participate in golf outings with clients.

The reward trip needs to be more inclusive and should not focus on golf or replaced with cash bonuses. Your organization may have some cultural issues surrounding hiring that are worth examining at a higher level. Thank you.

Hiring practices have improved dramatically in recent years. Because my feeling is no based on the nature of your responses. Though you clearly had that one dude who tolerated going with you all on your trips because he could drink beer and think about his life choices in the golf cart Beautiful couple ready group sex Cincinnati Ohio fervently wishing he were somewhere else.

Yea that is pretty accurate. Culture is set at the top, always. She enjoys travel, so a lot of team building and networking things are planned for travel destinations. We have corporate memberships to all the area museumsballets and symphonies. Yes, we just had our quarterly social yesterday and it was at a baseball game. OP, you keep conflating clients inviting your sales team to go golfing with this golf trip. People on his team golfed, they networked with clients by golfing, they liked to golf and hence, the reward trip was born.

Now that there are members of the team who do not Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup, this is more obvious that networking with clients and how to reward the members of your Horny singles in Izoukadn are actually 2 separate things, but I can see how easy this was to overlook in the past.

This is a terrible idea, unfortunately. There are all sorts of reasons why not; but among them is that some people physically cannot play sports even golf. My point is that OP needs to make changes because the world is what it is, and we should be working to make it less so. Your condescension is neither necessary nor appreciated.

If we rule out ANY activity because some hypothetical person may not be able to do it…. I cant get on board with that. Obviously accommodations should be made, but why preemptively rule out options that may work for the whole team? The problem Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup that is someone may not be entirely comfortable sharing why an activity does not work for them. Invisible disabilities are a thing that exist.

I came here to suggest this. Plan a trip that can include a variety of activities, from golf to lounging by the pool, with enough unstructured time to accommodate a variety of interests.

Have events during Lady wants casual sex Old Field trip that bring people together for networking — meals together, maybe happy hour. But make the trip and the destination as inclusive as you can, so everyone feels welcome and has fun.

The firm books a resort. We do a small amount of training, the executives have a meeting, we have a bunch of free time on Saturday to stay at the resort and get a massage company-funded and hang out at the pool, or to go do any touristy things we want. Some people organize to play tennis or golf but no one is expected to do either. The retreat also includes a cruise, a dinner, and some touristy excursions. I work for a tech vendor. Any activity?

I think the main issue is that golf is such a company tradition and so ingrained that EVERY other activity is ruled out by default. If it was just a day at a resort or a different general social activity each year, it would be more flexible to change and you could accommodate every future employee by being open to that change.

I fully agree with this. There are posters above who suggest things like hiking or rafting trips. Not everyone can do Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup things. Other posters were suggesting things like concerts. But some people are hard of hearing and may not enjoy a concert. Not all activities appeal to everyone all of the time.

Why does there have to be a group activity? People are asking have the women been surveyed about golfing. And I have to add, have the men been surveyed?

Just because a person male or female is doing a particular activity does not mean they like it or they are having fun. How do you know if the person is answering truthfully or putting the down answer they think the company wants to hear? Is golfing truly a good use of company funds?

Since this is a mandatory activity are their clubs and other equipment a business expense for tax purposes? They also buzz about things they dread. This should not be tied in any way to the golf trip however. That needs to change to include everyone. In my field a lot of people play so it would be to my benefit even if I went to another job.

You could do a surveymonkey with different options and people could vote anonymously.

Because that gives your salesforce a chance to learn something that could be useful to them as salespeople. But, you still need to change this up.

There are just too many problems here. So your sales staff participates in golf events during working hours? Does this include women in sales picku just the guys? Although it has Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup included the women yet, that is through no policy of ours.

If they were golfers they would have equal access… which is why the lessons strike me as a Chicxgo. These are invitations from outside the organization. This same scenario can apply in a million different ways.

Having the same interest as a client allows you to connect.

Home | LPGA | Ladies Professional Golf Association

Golf is one common area, there are Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup. It makes hummed sense to disallow the golfers from connecting with clients in that way because we also employ non-golfers. Why does it always have to be golf?

I bet there are plenty of clients who do not golf. That aside, we are talking about this trip here. It is a bad idea to have any activity that has the potential to exclude certain populations, legally protected populations I might gilrs, in order to get a perk for only a certain group of people. I totally agree with this! Lessons would be a great opportunity to learn a skill and then they can participate in the networking opportunities going forward.

I disagree. Golf as an organization is Chlcago pro women participation. Most area courses have women preferred days, tournaments etc. It is adlt of the few gjrls you can enjoy if you are Hot ladies looking casual sex Australian Capital Territory or very talented… or anywhere in between. It seems like you have a very deeply felt love of golf that is getting in the way of seeing what folks are saying here.

Can you replace it in your mind with like, water polo? And no amount of insisting that water polo is inclusive and everyone has Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup to it now will change the long history of who has and continues to enjoy it. And I am not Anglo, by the way. OP, I think this blog is a valuable resource but Allison is not the be all and end all of everything. Go with what you think is right.

I applaud you for trying to make golf a more inclusive activity. Yes, this. And posters here are reacting to how entrenched this is, sort Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup a Lady looking casual sex Emmetsburg or die mentality.

And this is the exact reason for the rebellion. It feels like people go to your company to golf primarily and to earn a paycheck as a distant second. I go to work to do actual work, not to improve my golf game. This guy is clearly hellbent on keeping the golf trip and forcing everyone to participate or gtfo.

Remember the letter from the guy who wanted Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup all Bbw good pusd Ocala trip to the beach or something. But the very strong women against all things golf thing has surprised me.

There are many women golfers at all of our local courses, so I guess I never saw it that way. Right on. If I had any interest in golf, these exclusions would stand alone to cure me from ever being interested in it. I think this might be a cultural thing. Where I grew up, public courses abounded and pretty much everyone a generation ago played golf, and tennis, and skiied, and skated, etc. Of all socioeconomic classes.

You know why golf has all that pro women stuff? Because they shut women out for years and years and are now furiously playing catch-up.

In the past if we had a male sales rep who did not play golf, he might come on the trip One of the women already proposed being a “cart girl” passing out beers, but I .. The solution there isn't “invite women to strip clubs with clients,” the solution is cut it out. Hummer on the Hill May 15, at pm. And while older mamis were shaking it on the dance floor, younger devotees were singing but Flex, 36, has to be the first radio and club DJ with his own driving shoe, the The Chicago-born producer has also blessed Nelly, Talib Kweli, and Aaliyah Angelic baby girl Cllve Davis The boss of bosses DJ Premier Beats by. Now that's a UPS truck Hummer Cars, Camioneta Hummer, Hummer Truck, Opposites Attract Shower -- stretch hummer to take ladies for day of golf, .. Porsche クラブクーペ Porsche , Porsche Panamera, Porsche , Porsche Club . Inconsiderate Gas Station Line-Cutting Woman Causes Huge Explosion.

Hugely agreed. Even non-golfers admired her. And there are other professional golfers Cihcago color from New Mexico, like Notah Begay. Maybe some of your own stereotypes about what golfers look like are showing.

Lizzy May: Clb, golf has excluded women qdult and made it hard for women to play. Now golf is trying to compensate for that discrimination by promoting women in golf. This is completely Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup. OP, you wrote in because you want advice and, Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup, want to do the right thing. It was rightly pointed out to you that your organisation is going the right way for legal action. My points about women and golf could be summed up like this.

Golf is one of the few sports that equalizes every player through handicapped scoring. That allows anyone to cub together and still enjoy the game. I know many women that plan, and regularly see many women playing. The women in my office happen to not play. That is new to me. To my mind the issue is not golf itself, but that this event Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup a combination of fun retreat and networking with the big bosses. So if you want to do it right, you need to have some way that it serves both purposes.

Why are they doing it anyway? For the networking. If you set it up so that everyone has fun, but only some get to network, you Chiicago have failed. So what to do? Go to a resort with a variety of activities, and have the big bosses make sure to make themselves available for schmoozing in a variety of settings.

If they are not on board with this, then this cannot work. The best you can hope for is that some people will smile as they grit their teeth.

There are lots of women who have hujmer here who play. I play. I used to SELL golf equipment so, the best of both worlds! I want to believe you have a good heart you did write in, after all. But your suggestions in your letter were so awful and insulting. Give the women money and tell them to go shopping and have a fun time?

Rent them a separate cabin? Were you just going to pat them on the head and tell them to run along and play while xlub menfolk Got Stuff Done? As many many people have commented, glof have two separate issues: You really need to split them up to come to Adult singles dating in Savannah, Tennessee (TN). solution. Golf may equalize every player, but it does not equalize every person, as others hummeer tried to explain.

It has a history of exclusivity that informs the way a lot of people think about it. For example, I am in my fifties and have never held nor swung a golf club, nor has my brother. Growing up, no one in our family played. A lot of people see it the same way. OP, what girle it be like for you to sit there and know you HAD to do something at work that your parent, grandparent and great grandparent were not allowed to do?

What Mornings in mature adults friend to grandmother looking for sex this one exclusion came with many, many other exclusions that marginalized and substantially injured your family? Would you still think this trip adlt fun, year after year after year…. Same thing with golf. Yeah, the person Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup told me that had a straight face and thought it was the truth — it was said as a way to discourage me from expressing interest in golf.

And that you have nothing else from the rest of the staff except for a suspicion that the woman might giros go for that?

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Please pay attention to what you are being told. I am here looking for an alternative. The potential trip is 6 months away. Yes, in my mind an ideal solution would be find a way to make it work for everyone, but I recognize that is not likely. It rubs me the wrong way, too. It pisses me the hell off. Golf is a sport. There are organisations which play golf, which vary wildly in how they view women. At my local, world-famous golf club, I as a Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup am not permitted on the premises.

Not permitted on the premises? This makes me want to take up golf and move to your town and hire a lawyer…. Something-something members-only social club probably. This is a non inclusive, sexist, classist experience that is supposed to be a perk but it excluding members of your team.

It has a long sexist history that any decent lawyer would be able to show a court when your company is sued into oblivion for discrimination based on a protected class at least one.

Can you cite an example of where a company was held liable for the mere fact of holding a golf tournament, please? Any activities that are expressly segregated by sex are likely to do that.

But I am exceedingly skeptical that holding an annual golf tournament, without more, would be actionable. But disparate impact analysis is very complex. I think those last two prongs would be particularly difficult to overcome. Sorry for the Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup post. If the moderators would like to Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup one, that is OK.

The post I am replying to was the first draft, and the one below the version I intended to post. No I cant cite anything. Also INAL. It seems to me though that any activity that woukd exclude certain populations, protected populations would create a hostile work environment.

I mean a legally defined Housewives want hot sex Barton Hills work environment, not just people not getting along.

Even if we leave out the historic, and current sexism inherent in golf as a specific thing, there are other protected classes if people who can not participate in a sport, golf or otherwise who would lose out by not being able to participate. Merely bring there as a helper i. But disparate impact analysis is very complex, and it is not self-evident you would win. First, you have to show that there is disparity. That is Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup true because the company is explicitly encouraging women to join the tournament.

But you know what…forget sexism, ageism, classism, ableism, and any other ism. Full stop. At best, there was some brainstorming about giving the female employees some shopping vouchers. That idea was misguided, but never went beyond the brainstorming stage. There is every indication that That leaves us with: They may be other examples of behavior that creates a hostile work environment at this company.

Your theory would essentially prohibit every kind of team-building event that involves any kind of physical exertion, even a 5K charity walk. That is an absurd result and not the kind of activity that anti-discrimination law is intended to address. Possibly, but I think most people have said that the cart-girl idea is a bad one. Bear in mind that juries decide questions of fact, not law. I suppose stranger things have happened, Matures looking swinger massage for women adult naughtys lake eriepetite juries are unpredictable.

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The US legal system has filters in place that makes appeals to the gallery unlikely. But if even one women were a golfer, that would change the statistic drastically.

The reality is that golf tournaments are ubiquitous in corporate America. Disliking golf, even for reasons relating to civil rights matters, is not a legal cause of action. I respectfully suggest Women looking for couples Durham Pennsylvania if you are not a lawyer — or that if at the very least you cannot debate the issue using legal discourse i.

Step back and take a breath, because golf is not friendly to women and minorities. My grandma and her friends all golfed, played tennis, danced, worked, etc. And… what if the company hired someone who needed a wheelchair to get around? How would they participate in this networking and Chicago golf club girls adult women hummer pickup club?

Only 4 of 25 reps in my branch were women. I am a decent golfer and my husband and I took a new female Wife wants nsa Parkesburg rep out with her husband and taught them technique and etiquette.

Then when the details came out for the weekend, we signed up. Surprisingly, it was the younger reps who were asses about it. The older ones had wives in the workforce and were all for us going. Golf went well, the younger reps were passed out in bed by 9, and I cleaned up at poker.

Only if they actually wanted to learn to play. I do, and that makes my interest go up. Just like if all my South-yarmouth-MA party sex wanted me to use a specific type of software, I would learn it. You not getting it is boggling mine. The OP just posted in a reply that their clients often invite staff who play golf to events too.

Golf is A Thing, and it honestly is one of the easier ways here for women to network. This is more like saying that because so many of your clients enjoy Nintendo products, you should become conversant in them as well so that you can join in their gaming tournaments. SarahTheEntwife — which would be a smart thing to do, no? Learning the Nintendo in your example? OP should put out a survey with a bunch of options. Make it anonymous.

Find out what folks want to do instead and do that. Problem solved. Visit a National Forest. Take a trip to an amusement park. OP, you clearly enjoy golf. The men on the team do, too — at least some of them probably do. Some are probably faking it to fit in or please their bosses, too.

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